The Future Of Learning And Training
Tune in to this special episode of the Learn to Win podcast.

Loyal Learn to Win Fans

We are thrilled to announce that this is our final episode of Learn to Win and want to share a warm THANK YOU joining us on this learning journey!

We took this last episode to reflect on a few of our favorite insights, and share some clips of the Future of Mobile Learning and Training. Join us for this episode and hear from these guests on the future of learning:

  • Paul Zak, Immersion (Wearables)
  • Maxime Ros, Revinax (VR)
  • Tiffany Prince, Talent Development, Learning Technology + (AI) Consultant
  • Steve Cunningham, Readitfor.me (MicroCourses)

Featuring:

  • Parth Khanna, CEO, ACTO
  • Derek Lundsten, CEO, Scrimmage

ORIGINAL TRANSCRIPTION BELOW:

Todd: Hello, everyone. Todd staples here with the third part of the 50th episode, and the final episode of the learn to win podcast. I am so excited for today’s show because we are reflecting on 50 episodes that we’ve done over the past year. And not only that, but we have some big news!

Scrimmage—the company that has sponsored the Learn to Win Podcast that I’ve been working with for the past year—has been acquired by a fantastic company and a phenomenal team. The company is called ACTO. We’re not going to get into too much on this episode, but we do have Parth Khanna the CEO of ACTO on the episode today to join Derek. And I reflecting on the past 50 episodes and everything we’ve learned to have a discussion about the future of mobile learning and training.

This final episode is just like the last two where we reflect on specific guests, specific topics and technologies that we’ve talked about and how they are going to be the future of mobile learning and training. We talk about using real time data to measure people’s openness, to learning and to identify your absolute top performers, so those people can be modeled and emulated throughout your organization.

We discuss the role of immersive learning experiences using augmented reality, virtual reality, and how that can create higher engagement and better retention longterm, so the people who need work in certain areas get the right content and the right training at the right time. That works best for them.

We talk about trust, which is a huge issue.

The more data we start to share with each other, with the company we work for, with applications that we use, the more trust is becoming the commodity of the future.

I’m really excited for this episode and I’m happy to welcome Parth Khanna to the show and I’m so appreciative of all of our listeners and people who have watched our videos.

It’s just been a wonderful journey. I’ve learned a lot, and I hope that things that Derek and I and the guests we’ve had on the show have shared with you have made an impact. Thank you so much for giving us your time and attention, and let’s cut right into the show.

Derek: So I am super happy to welcome you to the final installment of the learn to win podcast. And today we have a very special guest, my friend and fellow entrepreneur, founder, and CEO of ACTO, Parth Khanna.

Todd: Parth, I echo Derek sentiments. Welcome to the show. It’s so great to have you here and talk about the big news a little bit.

Parth: Thank you. It’s my honor to be here and it’s our honor to be joining forces that scrimmage. And together really redefining what life sciences industry is capable of.

Derek: Thank you, Parth. It’s an honor and humbling to be both with you here. And in general, as we start to build this next version of our combined company, it’s very exciting. Congratulations to you and the entire ACTO team and the leadership team on this next milestone. It’s very, very exciting.  So the structure and some of the interview clips that we’ve, we’ve done, which I’m going to ask for feedback on their future education training and around innovation, as it pertains to healthcare and personalized learning.

Todd: So Derek thinking back on those 50 episodes, what were one or two of the key things that we need to look out for as we’re moving towards the future of mobile learning and training?

Derek: Well, I’m super excited just regarding technology in general, but especially for how it’s informing. Learning and how people interact with content generally. So one of the topics we talked about was, was the role of biometrics, right?

And I think back to the interview, we did, around being able to see people in real time, engaging and having their emotionality in response to. The content that they’re viewing or their physiological response to the content that they’re viewing. We’ve got a couple of different interviews on those topics.

And I think that it’s fascinating to get to the point now where you can actually see people’s pupils, dilating, you see their heart rate changing, or observe it through the technology that they’re using. And that is going to change how we build content and how people experience content digitally. And eventually when we’re back in live and in person live experiences again.

 

Parth: One of your guests that I found so fascinating in their insights was Paul Zack and the relationship between physiology and biofeedback and learning.

And when we do know that these things are interrelated, but to be able to tie those two dots together was just fascinating.

Todd: I just had a conversation with Paul a week or so ago. They’ve now taken their technology, which taps into any sort of Fitbit, Apple watch any sort of wearable and can track. Through your heart rate, how immersed you are in the content.

And just recently they’ve created that as a real time measurement device. So you can literally see as you’re giving a training, as you’re onboarding people, as you’re showing a new advertisement or new marketing came in, you can see in the moment how effective that is at giving their attention and actually inspiring them to take  action.

So let’s take a look at that clip now.

Paul Zak: Really we’re looking at why. people were motivated to take actions at a distance. Like, can I talk Derek? maybe I’m a persuasive guy. I can get you to do something, but why do we respond to movies? Why don’t we respond to advertisements? Why do we remember when a great teacher tells us something?

That’s kind of weird, right? That our brains are so, so somehow socially engaged with an experience that we’re like, Oh man, I got to do something. So, through about 20 years of research, we identified. The underlying neurochemicals and, brain areas that motivate action after experience. And in doing that, we identified this neurologic state.

We call immersion. In which you are attentive to what’s happening around you, but you also emotionally are engaged by it. So you really care about it. And that seems to be a general evaluation mechanism in the brain. We’re always evaluating things. So I want to talk to you. Do you want to get a sip of water or what, you know, what am I doing?

So all animals have this and we, what we’ve been able to do is then create software as a service. So anybody can measure this anywhere in real time. And that allows us to give people rapid feedback and create great experiences, which we all want.

Derek: Absolutely. So, you know, a scrimmage, we all are about personalized learning, right?

Obviously if you’re, if you’re reading someone’s individual reaction to an experience, whether it be educational or otherwise, you can see the impact for how that would apply, especially for driving just greater levels of activation engagement, continuous development, and really building curriculum in such a way that, you know, gets the desired goal either for that person or.

Whatever the objective they’re trying to meet is right. So tell us a bit more about the technology itself and there’s a, how you’re measuring people’s emotive response or their level of engagement with content that is being produced.

So let me go back on the neuroscience.

Paul Zak: So when you have an experience, that’s fabulous for you, that experience is tagged in your memory with emotions. So, this is why it’s easy to remember, you know, major experience of your life birth of a child, a nine 11, then you know, things that are really outstanding, but it’s happened lower levels, not even peak experiences.

And so once you take that with emotion, that experience again is kind of like a little, a little nudge in your brain. You want to do more of this and you certainly remember it more easily. So that’s kind of the key. So once we identified the brain processes that created an immersive experience, and we said, but you don’t want a bunch of PhDs in your office wherever you want to measure this because otherwise it’s too expensive.

It’s too slow. And you’ve met PhDs, Derek, you know, they talk funny, they smell funny. You don’t want them in your office. That’s the last thing you want. Right. So. Could we actually automate all the signal processing so that we can measure immersion second by second. And that’s what we’ve done with a wearable sensor and a cloud computing.

Derek: Obviously in the world that we’re living in now regarding working from home and everyone’s, you know, experiencing the world differently, the beauty of virtual reality and augmented reality, I think is really going to shift, or potentially could shift.

And, the work that was even done, you know, going into the pandemic, where physicians could get trained on. Respirators and ventilators. but even just beyond that, in terms of how people, how procedures are facilitated, how classrooms are done, there’s so much more we can do to build, you know, immersive and virtual worlds we can actually interact in.

And I think that’s something else that we’re going to see increasingly used over the next decade where people can literally be in simulated environments, experiences and practice, almost like in the matrix.

Todd: So now that we’ve talked about immersion neuro and the neuroscience of how people are immersed in something, I want to cut to a shot from Maxim Ross, whose company immerses you into an experience using augmented reality and virtual reality and his technology literally puts the trainee in the operating room . Let’s check out what max has to say.

Maxime: This is a continuum. In fact, if you take the, the learner journey, it’s it’s, there are other media or tools that have to be implementing into this flow on our journey. Yeah. So for hers VR, due to the immersive aspect, give you the emotional or engagements, allowing the learner to, to learn better. In fact, make, make the content chick dance memory.

Derek: So one of the coolest things about AI in my opinion is the way that the computer, the machine learns about the individual or the participant that’s interacting with it. So when you think about Alexa, you think about a Google home and the questions that you asked, the interactions that you have with it, or if you’re interacting even on, on search, it starts to collect information about what’s relevant for you, or what’s a challenge or need for you.

So in the context of learning. The data is going to start getting better at making recommendations on here’s a course or here’s a skill area that may be helpful for someone to work on. There’ll be technology that recommends that, that next step. And it can actually help to facilitate in the conversation with their clients or with their partners on how to be more present and to show up in a powerful way for that audience.

Parth: Derek what’s really interesting is taking that notion of AI, helping us identify the right learning behaviors. And arriving at that conscious competence is to take it to the next level, which is using AI to now and push out the right content the right time, and also targeting that content to a person gaps.

And again, big data and AI first and forth almost allows us to study a person’s learning behaviors and identify the gaps. And, one analogy that I love sharing is. Let’s say I have a, I have vitamin B12 deficiency, because I, I don’t eat my fruits and vegetables. What would be a remedy in that situation?

You would give that person a supplement for vitamin B 12 the same way. If I’m a learner and there’s a certain competency that I’m not growing in, I would give them that targeted content to supplement that area. For example, in the context of pharma training, we talk about. Clinical fluency, being a difficult area for a lot of pharma reps where they have that deficiency.

So give them content for clinical fluency. And now the power of AI is to be able to not only know, That clinical deficiency is the clinical fluency is the deficiency for this particular rep, but to be able to in a timely manner, Paul says that content. So it has a maximum impact for them. So really is a new horizon and a new world, for, for folks in learning, and how AI can be leveraged

Todd: Part of the, I totally agree with that too. And it just makes it more interesting for the learner. Right? That’s what it’s all about. It’s making it engaging. And relevant and, and only what they need, like your example of the vitamin B deficiency. We did a great webinar with Tiffany Price who does a lot of consulting and she’s got some great points at AI.

So let’s cut to that now to hear a little more about what we learned in the past season about exactly what you’re talking

Tiffany: With artificial intelligence what is different with this wave of technology is the fact that it’s not only going to disrupt.

The blue collar workers that we generally see disruption at that level. We’re also going to see disruption at the white collar level and across the board across society because of the proliferation of artificial intelligence because regardless of the economic situation, we’re still going to see that AI and machine learning transformation within our organizations.

I was looking over a very recent articles in ATD and training magazine looking at.

Artificial intelligence, not just to say, Oh, it’s a shiny new toy, but how do we leverage this technology to do things differently and upskill people in a way that we haven’t even thought of before? So don’t just use it as a classroom or an e-learning, you know, replacement let’s holistically, strategically think differently in how we can upskill re-skill and engage our folks.

Honestly, I think even in this kind of, environment, we need to do a better job about growing our employees and seeing potential and then bringing them in the organization.

And then they will need to rescale up-skill regardless because everything is going to be moving. You know, the bar is going to be raised constantly with technology being rolled out in our organization. So understanding where those gaps are, is going to be important, understanding where those maybe their experience level is not as much as you would like, but is there an opportunity to part partner with them in the organization so they could learn on the job?

So, those are just things I want to throw out there. And I think it’s up to us as learning and development professionals to kind of help the business, understand how critical that is, that we have those opportunities. And again, we’re flying the plane as we’re, you know, building it. Right. So, and especially right now, that’s going to be the case I’m thinking for the next year or two.

Nate: Yeah. And what scrimmage is doing. As it relates to this is actually using AI to help identify those skill gaps or what has worked previous employees on X, Y, and Z. And how can we tailor this person’s actions based on other people’s success? If that makes sense.

Parth: What I find really fascinating is the concept of this unconscious competence, which is a lot of successful folks. They don’t know why they’re successful, and that’s really an opportunity for AI to help us understand and to help us go from unconscious competence to conscious competency.

And as an example, you know, you might have a sales rep who right before their meeting is referencing certain paragraph on a document. Maybe it’s a brochure or sales literature, and that has some sort of messaging or some ideas that really are resonating with the customers. And the question is how do we capture that? How do we capture that insight? And that’s really where opportunity for AI to go through and crunch through learning behaviors of high performers and identify those patterns that can then be replicated across.

Todd: I think using the machine learning and the AI is so valuable is  to figure out what your best performers do with their time. How are they consuming the training? Are they going through it? Very slowly and methodically or they going through it at a quick pace and then going back through it to reinforce that knowledge.

So it’s really interesting. We had some great people on the show One in particular was Steve Cunningham from read it for me discussing how people learn.

Steve Cunningham: …And what we realized was that the people who were buying it from us were people who were already successful. So had this huge customer list of people who are on the Forbes, billionaires lists and leading amazing entrepreneurial companies. And so the people who are already successful were the ones who are using it.

And so that started a journey of understanding how. The world’s most successful people learn and it’s much different than how most other people learn. And so what I realized and nothing that I’ll say here is going to be new or revolutionary and kind of what I want to try to impress on people when I’m talking about it is it’s not so much whether or not, you know what I’m about to tell you.

It’s like, are you doing it? And is this part of your practice? That’s what matters? Because you can talk to somebody about the principles from the seven habits of highly effective people but that doesn’t really matter. What matters is, are you continuing to practice those things?

So with that in mind, that’s one of the things that successful people do is they have a purpose for whether reading. They don’t just mindlessly consume information. They have a problem that they’re trying to solve.

When we first started to talking to companies, they would always talk about this thing called the Kirkpatrick evaluation model. And I don’t know if you’ve bumped up against this in your work, but it’s this pyramid and there’s different levels of effectiveness and they would always tell us, well, here’s how we’re going to evaluate your program.

And depending on which level you’re at this, you know, you’re more valuable to our company. So level one is at the bottom of the pyramid and that’s reaction, which is, did people like the training, a level two is learning, which is the, did we walk out of the training with some new concepts?

And so this could be, you know, watching a video, this could be attending and in live lecture or training or workshop, a level three is. Did it change your behavior? Level four is, did this produce the intended results, hopefully results that are beneficial to the business. So I had assumed from the get, go that while everybody’s talking about this, they must be doing all those things.

They must be tracking all of these things. It took me a very long time to ask people like, well, tell me how you’re tracking all of that stuff. And as it turns out, most people are not tracking hardly any of that stuff and what I learned is that nobody tracks behavior, and I want to say nobody. But people who do track the hate, who say they track behavior, actually just send surveys out, asking people if they’ve applied, anything that they learned from that training that took six months ago, which is not anywhere close to tracking behavior.

And if you don’t track the behavior, you’ve got no way to figure it out, produce the results that you’re looking for.

And so that for us was, an opportunity to then start thinking about how do you, how would you do that? How would you track behavior to then track results and add, let us into. Just looking at how the world’s most successful people did it and looking in different areas of the psychology and biology and, other practices where it’s very important for people to create results.

It’s like when you’re flying an airplane, it’s very important that the airplane lands safely. And so there are certain things that they do in that environment for pilots to make sure that that happens and then surgeries. And, and as it turns out, that is just what. Those types of behaviors is what the world’s most successful people do.

Derek: So I just want to reiterate how awesome it’s been working with Utah and for our listeners and our guests who have joined us for learning to weigh in. It’s been really fun learning together and to share information and to share experts with people on all different topics and really appreciate it.

All the people who’ve spent time listening to these episodes, and hopefully you’ve received a lot of value that you’re applying to your own, your own lives and your own learning journey. So looking forward to what’s next.

Todd: Derek, it has just been a pleasure to work with you and learn from all of our guests.

And even from our listeners, who’ve contacted us and engaged. I’ve learned a lot from you being on the show and it’s been just a really special experience over the past year to do these 50 episodes and share things with our audience. And,  I just really enjoyed it and thank everyone for tuning in and listening.

Parth: Todd and Derek, thank you for having me on it was such a pleasure and to all of our listeners, be sure to check out the launchpad podcast on October 7th, we’re super excited about ACTO instruments coming together and on that podcast, we’ll talk about the story behind both organizations and more importantly, the future of learning in life sciences.

Todd: Parth it was great to have you on. Thank you so much for coming and I’m so excited to join you on the next stage in the journey.

 

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